“I think that it’s really fun for the audience to feel transported and to feel like they’ve been on a journey or a vacation or visited another world or another land, so that’s usually my objective when I do a show.”

— Anna Sui

Interview by Alexandra May, Detroit Contributor

Anna Sui’s collections take you on creative journeys unparalleled in the world of fashion. Mixing vintage inspiration with current cultural obsessions, she effortlessly creates hip and exuberantly original clothing. Anna has a worldwide cult following who look to her each season for her ironic mixes of romantic nostalgia and rock-and-roll glam.

Anna Sui's first fashion show in 1991 earned her international acclaim. She won the CFDA Perry Ellis Award for New Fashion Talent in 1993, and in 2009 she received their prestigious Geoffrey Beene Lifetime Achievement Award. Her line includes very popular fragrance and cosmetic ranges, and sixteen total licenses. Anna Sui designs and manufactures from her New York City headquarters.

Known for her commitment to the things that move her, Sui’s devotion to music can always be seen in her clothes. Her passion for interior design has created visually stunning boutiques and apartments. Her love for shopping has made her an authority on the best in every city.

Anna is a true trendsetter to whom stylists and editors look to for direction. The boundless energy and creative ingenuity of her runway presentations always make her shows a high point of New York Fashion Week. Her runway soundtrack is one of the most anticipated each season. Following her own vision, Anna Sui continues to inspire.

In the spring of 2017, a retrospective exhibition of her work opened at the Fashion and Textile Museum in London. The World of Anna Sui traveled to Tokyo last summer, and will be in New York in September of 2019 at The Museum of Arts and Design.

Anna Sui Fall 2019 Runway: Photograph by Thomas Lau

Alexandra May: Can you tell me, what is your first memory around fashion and design?

Anna Sui: Well, I guess it's when I was four. I was a flower girl at my aunt and uncle's wedding in New York, and when I got back to Michigan I told my parents when I grew up I was going to move to New York and become a fashion designer. I don't know if I knew what that meant, but that's what I told them.

Alex: And do you remember how you were feeling?

Anna: Well, I was so thrilled about seeing my aunts all dressed up in their clothes for the wedding with beautiful dresses and matching shoes and jewelry. So I think that's what gave me the idea that I wanted to design beautiful clothes like that.

Alex: So you said you went back to Michigan . . . You're from Detroit. I know I've heard you talk about the city and its impact on your aesthetic and your career. Can you talk a little bit about Detroit's influence?

Anna: Sure. I mean, I think I grew up in the golden years of Detroit because it was such a wealth of music and fashion. Every interesting rock band was passing through Detroit at the time, plus they had their own music scene between Motown and all the rock bands that developed while they were living in Michigan. Also, the stores were just incredible. Anything you saw in magazines you could find in the stores. Hudson's downtown was the mecca, every once in a while we'd go there and see incredible designers like Betsey Johnson. You could find everything there, and you would even get glimpses of some of the British stuff because there were boutiques that would pop up, like rock-and-roll boutiques, and some of those people that owned those stores went to London and bought things like snakeskin boots from Granny Takes a Trip and some of the beautiful crepe dresses and chiffon dresses. So you would get glimpses of that, and I think that it was a great time to grow up in Detroit.

Alex: I've heard so many stories about Hudson's. I'm just so sorry I never got to experience it or see the building.

Anna: Oh, it was incredible. Yeah, it was pretty special. I loved going to the fabric and pattern department with my mom. We would spend hours in there, and I would just look at all the fabrics and then look through the pattern books and just imagine clothes that I would make. I think that that's another thing that really generated my love for designing clothes.

Alex: Did you get a sewing machine as a young girl, or did you just start drawing?

Anna: My mom had a sewing machine, because at that time, most people made things at home. I didn't learn how to sew until I took Home Ec. Our first project was a basic blouse, and once I learned the fundamentals of patterns and sewing, I started going to buy patterns with my mom in the pattern book section, and I would interchange the patterns to make my own designs out of them.

Alex: You mentioned all the music that came through Detroit. How has music influenced your career?

Anna: Well, the concept that I had when I started my own business was that I just wanted to design clothes for rock stars and people that went to see rock bands. At the time, there was a major boutique in every main city throughout the United States that would sell clothes, records, magazines, rock-oriented things. And when I did my first collection, that's the kind of store I was hoping to sell to. I didn't have much of an ambition beyond that when I first starting making clothes myself.

Alex: You studied at Parsons, right? Was your concept of clothes for rock stars before Parsons, or did that evolve while you were there?

Anna: Well, when I was at Parsons all I knew was that I wanted to be a fashion designer. At that point, I didn't really understand the industry or anything. But when I was in my second year I overheard two seniors talking about a job opportunity at a company that was called Charlie's Girls, and I remember seeing the designer in Seventeen magazine and Mademoiselle and Glamour but also in some of the more underground magazines like Rags that I remember getting when I was still in Michigan, and they would cover all the interesting boutiques throughout the country. So I thought, “Oh, my god, that's Erika Elias. I have to go up there." So I just took my student portfolio and put it together and went up to meet her, and she hired me. So I never went back to school after that. I just started working.

Alex: Wow!

Anna: And so, that's how I really learned the industry. And at that point, it was a very thriving industry. It was in the garment center. I learned all the fabric resources and trim resources. And then there were several design rooms in the company, and she gave me my own design room to run, so I worked with a draper and sewers. So it really was the best training I could ever receive.

Alex: That's amazing. I was going to ask you, what's the most important thing you learned or the most important person you met at Parsons, but it sounds like overhearing those two seniors was the best thing that happened.

Anna: Yeah.

Alex: So mentioned you got your own design room, what is your creative process?

Anna: It's really generated by fabric. That's what I learned with Erika. We would shop the fabric market. We would see every fabric vendor possible. And then, sometimes, she would have an idea that she wanted like gingham, and then we had to find every gingham available so that she would have a selection. And I didn't understand it, at the time, why she needed to see every example, but it really boils down to what you're able to sample from them because sometimes, they can show you a lot of beautiful fabric swatches, but they have no sample yardage. Then you have to commit to it before you actually get the sample yardage. Where some companies, especially back then, would stock fabrics, so that if you wanted a purple gingham, you could get it without having to buy a couple hundred yards.

So it was a really thorough training, as far as resourcing, and I think that learning that helped me become very resourceful when I started my own business, too.

Alex: I remember once when I first met you, you were talking about how you used to be able to find so much product in America, but not so much now. How has that impacted the industry?

Anna: As I mentioned, at that point, when I first started, this industry was really thriving, and you could barely walk down the streets because there were so many garment racks, and every building in this area was filled with clothing showrooms, sample rooms, factories, etc. Also, you could get all the available support with zipper companies, places that applied snaps, button companies, and beading. There was just so much going on here. And when I worked on my book for my exhibition, it just dawned on me that all those services and available resources that I started with in the beginning of my career, most of them were gone. Especially, during the Clinton years, everything was outsourced, and all those fabric companies that were more than one hundred years old, they all closed. All the woolen mills in the Northeast, all the cotton mills in the South, all those companies are gone, and it's very sad to realize how many people lost their jobs and how many things are not available to us anymore.

Alex: I read that when you talk about doing your fashion shows you're taking the viewer on a journey. Can you talk about that? How do you create the vision for your shows?

Anna: I was so excited when I was able to do my first show in '91. I really wanted it to be a show. And back then, it was easy because there were supermodels, so people came to the shows to see the supermodels. And when those models put on the clothes, you realized why they were supermodels. They just showed them so well.

Anna Sui Fall 1991 Runway: Photograph by Kevin Leong

We have been through so many incarnations of what the “it” model has been—there were years of the waif, and then the Belgium-waif, and then all of the sudden there were all of Russian girls. The personality of the model became less important than the look and the style of the moment. So you really had to start having some other kind of impact within the fashion show to make it memorable and for people to take notice. So I really concentrated on the story and the journey and achieved that through the backdrop, the music that was playing, and the clothing that was coming down the runway, plus the casting. All those things are so important to create this whole story that you're trying to present.

I think that it's really fun for the audience to feel transported and to feel like they've been on a journey or a vacation or visited another world or another land, so that's usually my objective when I do a show.

Alex: When you were speaking at the College for Creative Studies a few months ago you told a story about you and Madonna. Can you tell me about that story?

Anna: Sure. I started my own business in '81, and I had been making clothing for stores like Barneys and department stores and a lot of boutiques. I slowly built my company to where I really had a solid foundation but never thought about where I was going to take it.

In the fall of 1990, I went to Paris with my friend Steven Meisel, and he said, “Oh, this way we can go see some shows. We can hang out.” So the first show we went to, we stopped at the Ritz to pick up Madonna. When we went to her room it was filled with shopping bags and racks of clothes from every major designer, and I was just so jealous and thinking, “Oh, my god. She can have anything she wants.”

Then she came out of her room, and she had her coat on. We were late for the show, so we rushed, and we got to the show. It was Gaultier, and when she sat down, she took off her coat, and she said, “Anna, I have a surprise for you,” and she was wearing my dress. And I thought, “Oh, my god. She had all those people just throwing things at her, and then she wore my dress.”

When we got back to New York, Steven said, “Okay, now it's your turn. You have to do a show.” And I just thought, “Oh, my god. How could I do that?” This was at the point when Chanel and Versace were at their peaks. It was just daunting to think about, but that was one of the things that happened that gave me some confidence that maybe I could do it, maybe things are changing. I really credit Madonna for inspiring me that way.

Alex: Was she one of the most interesting people you've ever dressed?

Anna: I mean, at that point, it was amazing that she was wearing my clothes, and she wore a lot of them, because again, she had the selection of every designer in the world. Of course, we had the actresses at the time like Winona Ryder and Nicole Kidman, when she was starting. Plus, I had all the supermodels wearing my clothes. Naomi was the big champion, and when the other girls would see Naomi or Linda [Evangelista] wearing my clothes, then they would call and ask for clothes or come up here and shop or go to my store. So it just escalated that way.

Anna Sui Spring 1994 Runway: Photograph by Raul Gatchalian

Alex: Is there someone that you'd like to dress that you haven't done so yet?

Anna: Well, I guess, there's Eva Green. I think she's such an interesting actress and has such a cool look. Someone like that, I would love to dress. A lot of the interesting people in bands like Florence + the Machine, she's worn my clothes. I don't know if I'm the hip-hop type, so I don't know if any of those artists have really approached us for clothes, but it's always interesting to see people that are interested in what I'm doing and see how they interpret the clothes, too, because everyone puts their own style to it. Like Taylor Swift, when she first started, was wearing a lot of my clothes.

Alex: Another comment that really struck me at your CCS talk was about how difficult the fashion industry has become in terms of generating revenue. You were talking about all the licenses you have to have, I think, in Japan to enable you to make your collection and do your shows. Can you talk about that part of the industry?

Anna: Yeah. I mean, it's really difficult to make a lot of money on clothes. There's just so many factors involved. Fabric is always late, the dress ends up costing more than how you priced it, shipments are late, and you have to give a discount. There's just so many things that you're working against. So it's very difficult for designers to really make money on clothes.

And if you think about Chanel, who have been around for such a long time, really, their moneymaker is their fragrance, their cosmetics, and their handbags. That's really what makes money for a designer are those licenses. But what generates the excitement is the fashion.

Alex: Right. And what do you have going on in Japan? I know you have a lot.

Anna: Well, in 1996-97, there were a lot of Japanese companies coming to New York Fashion Week and interested in distributing in Japan. I signed a contract with Isetan, which is a big department store there, and along with the contract for distribution, they introduced me to 12 licenses, one of which was the cosmetics, which is still one of the biggest licenses that I have. So that was a godsend, and I think that that's why I've been able to remain independent and stay in business all these years.

The World of Anna Sui exhibition in Tokyo: Courtesy of Albion Cosmetics

Alex: Actually, speaking about cosmetics, when you're doing a show, I mean, you must have someone who comes in and does all the makeup. How do you partner with someone for that part of the experience?

Anna: Well, for the first part of when I started doing shows I was friends with Francois Nars, and he did my makeup for my shows. When he signed with Shisheido and had his contract, it got a little conflicting, so Pat McGrath started doing the makeup for me. I've really been lucky to have partnered with two of the most incredible makeup artists in the world.

Anna Sui, Steven Meisel, and Pat McGrath: Courtesy of Anna Sui

Alex: That's wonderful. Do you think there's something in the fashion industry that's changed for the better throughout your career? What's different today that you think has really improved the whole industry?

Anna: It's hard to quantify its improvement. I guess, globalization is great, but to me it was more exciting when you had to go to Paris to get it, you had to go to Japan to get it. It made it more special. Now, you just look online and you order it. Everything's too accessible now, which is good and bad, because you get what you want, but there's something that makes it . . . not less desirable, but less covetable, I guess, is the word. There used to be that excitement that, “Oh, my god. I can't believe I could get this!” Now, it's just like, “Oh, let me look online and . . .” “Order it and send it back because you don't like . . .” it made it too accessible, I think, which took away from the thrill and the discovery and the rarity.

Alex: What do you think about social media in terms of sharing images? Do you think that's helpful?

Anna: I think it's great, but then it's, again, the same thing. It makes it less precious. It makes it less special. I just remember especially growing up in Detroit, only getting glimpses of what Anita Pallenberg was wearing to a movie premiere. You would see something in a rock magazine maybe six months later, but it would just be, “Oh, my god. Look at how she's dressed.” Where now, you just get media overload every morning.

Again, it takes away from keeping it that special and rare image in your mind. It's great for research, but I used to love having to really search for something. Now, it's just at your fingertips.

Alex: I know you have an exhibition opening at The Museum of Arts and Design in New York, coming up in September? What will the visitors see? Is this similar to the exhibition that was in London that you had?

Anna: Yeah, it's a traveling show, and it will be the exhibition from London, but we've developed our own new settings. It's going to be on two floors.

One of the big changes that we have here in New York is that in the London show, in the entry room were my influences from London and some footage of the 60s fashion and my favorite British designers, with examples of clothing and photographs.

The World of Anna Sui exhibition in London 2018: Courtesy of the Fashion and Textile Museum

This one is going to be skewed more towards New York, and we'll have some of my favorite New York designers. Norma Kamali, who, when I went to college, I lived on her block, so I would see her every day and what she was wearing every day. Then it turned out my roommate got a job there; so she was such a big influence and such a revolutionary designer because she really was at the forefront of using knits and Lycra when they were just being developed.

And then Betsey Johnson, whom I just absolutely loved. I used to go to Hudson's to get Alley Cat clothes, because that's the one place that you could really get them. I would see them in a magazine and ask my mom, “Oh, can we go downtown and see if they have this dress?" And of course, what she did for Paraphernalia was such a breakthrough and so exciting.

The exhibition will feature some of their clothing plus other influences like Baby Jane Holzer who I remember seeing in Life magazine and pictures of her as a Warhol superstar, and also Anita Pallenberg. These will be the influences that we will show in the entry room.

Museum of Arts and Design Poster: Photograph by Raul Gatchalian

Alex: So what are you working on next? I remember you said you do two shows a year, and it takes six months to prepare each one and do the collection, so there's never a stop for you.

Anna: Yeah, it's true. We just launched resort last week. We've already started the spring collection. I'm working on the inspiration boards today, but we've worked out all the fabrications. That show will be September 9th, the day before the museum opening. I'm leaving for China next week. We're going to do a TV show, which is their version of Project Runway called Fashion Master. This is my third trip to China this year, so that's the other place that we're trying to make some headway.

Alex: Are you a judge on the show?

Anna: No, it's a little different. It's not a contest, it's more about interviewing “fashion masters,” about their process.

Alex: Wow. So lots of travel for you. I really appreciate you speaking with me.

The World of Anna Sui exhibition runs September 12, 2019 through February 23, 2020 at The Museum of Arts and Design in New York.

Feature portrait of Anna Sui by Jerry Schatzberg